Questioning Authority: Q&A with Leading Authorities for Entrepreneurial Excellence

Cultivating a Cascade of New Clients: The Art of Building a Referral Empire with Dr. Craig Foote

• Scott Vatcher • Episode 7

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Summary

In this episode, Dr. Craig Foote discusses the importance of referrals in service-based businesses and shares strategies for generating referrals without asking for them. He explains the cultural differences between asking for referrals in the United States and Australia and emphasizes the value of creating an exceptional experience for clients. Dr. Foote also highlights the negative impact of advertising on referrals and the need for a mindset shift among practitioners. He concludes by explaining why people refer and the power of acting on referrals in front of an audience. The conversation focuses on the importance of inspiring referrals in a chiropractic practice. It discusses the stumbling blocks for referrals and how to address them. The concept of consistency in offering and managing expectations is emphasized. The conversation also explores the proceduralization of referral requests and the importance of nurturing referrals and follow-up. The summary highlights the significance of referrals in building relationships and growing a community.

Takeaways

  • Referrals are a valuable source of high-quality clients in service-based businesses.
  • Creating an exceptional experience for clients is key to generating referrals.
  • Advertising can negatively impact the number of referrals received.
  • Practitioners should shift their mindset from hoping for referrals to actively seeking and acting on them. Stumbling blocks for referrals include introverted personalities and concerns about the quality of the referral experience.
  • Consistency in offering and managing expectations is crucial for successful referrals.
  • Proceduralizing referral requests can be more effective than directly asking for referrals.
  • Nurturing referrals and providing updates on the referral process can encourage more referrals.
  • Referrals are important for building relationships and growing a community in a chiropractic practice.

Check out Craig's referral program here: www.chiropracticflightschool.com.au/events

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Purpose of the Podcast
01:07 The Importance of Referrals in Service-Based Businesses
06:30 The Impact of Advertising on Referrals
12:05 The Flawed Strategy of Hoping for Referrals
18:43 Why People Refer
21:57 Creating an Exceptional Experience
22:23 The Power of Acting on Referrals
25:28 Introduction and Seminar Promotion
26:13 Stumbling Blocks for Referrals
27:32 Addressing Referral Concerns
29:20 Consistency in Offering and Expectations
31:03 Proceduralizing Referral Requests
37:10 Nurturing Referrals and Follow-up
47:45 Summary and Importance of Referrals

Speaker 1:

I'm Scott Vatcher, the host of Questioning Authority, where I question authority figures about health, wealth and relationships. This episode is brought to you by TheAuthorityCocom, helping health professionals be seen as the go-to authority in their community. I hope you enjoy this episode. Welcome to the Questioning Authority podcast. I'm your host, Scott Vatcher, and I'm here to question authority figures in health, business and relationships, to help you, the listener, achieve higher levels of authority, success and fulfillment in both your business and in your life. And I've got a great guest here with me today, a long-term friend of mine, dr Craig Foote. How are you? I'm good. Thanks, scott. Thanks for having me on board today. Yeah, super excited to have a fellow Aussie on here. I've been interviewing people all over the world, so it's good to have somebody at least somewhat on my time zone. I am in Perth.

Speaker 2:

I'm a little bit away, but yeah, so it's the same within a few hours. At least that, yes, it was the same within a few hours at least.

Speaker 1:

That's right, yes, so if somebody is tuning in now and just starting to listen to this podcast and they're thinking to themselves am I going to spend the next 30, 40 minutes listening to this? Am I going to give my crucial time to this podcast? What could you tell them that is going to help keep them stay here for the next period of time and get a lot out of it?

Speaker 2:

cool, okay, that's a good question, to get it straight out of the gate. So, uh, why spend the time with us today? Well, if you're in a service-based business, the things that we're going to be discussing today is going to be really focused on, um, helping you get your clients or patients referring to you without ever asking for them. As we all know, referred patients or referred clients are usually much more high quality than straight in off the street or through advertising. So I've dedicated a lot of years to this stuff and I teach it all the time, and your listeners are going to get a lot out of it that can apply directly into the scenario they're in at the moment.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, in the pre-show we discussed a few quick things that I feel you know will catch people's attention straight away, and so one of them you sort of alluded to it already is the idea of gathering referrals without ever asking for referrals yep, it perplexes some people.

Speaker 2:

I've got a lot of um excuse me, american friends and um, and, having traveled a fair bit to america, uh, uh, they, it's just culturally something that they ask for referrals. It's, it's something that people, the average person in America, expects to be sold to. They love the rah-rah, they love the, you know, and so culturally it is completely fine to actually ask for referrals. Goodness, I was speaking on stage the first time in the US. I stood up on stage and I said hi. Actually I said g, g'day, my name's Craig Foote, I'm from Australia. I got a standing ovation from 600 people and I hadn't even even shared anything with them.

Speaker 2:

And yet, culturally, here in Australia, if I get on the stage and I say hi, g'day, I'm Craig Foote, I'm from Perth, western Australia, they go yeah, what, what do you? Why should I listen to you? Like exactly the question you asked before. So culturally we are very different. So rather, what this is about is about creating the experience within your own practice, with your own business, that it just naturally evolves that they will actually start referring to you and then we also can nurture that relationship, because of course, when someone refers, they rarely refer just one person they actually could refer 20. We've had some clients refer more than $300,000 worth of chiropractic patients to us just one person. So that's a big referrer and we do definitely make sure she's taken good care of. Never once asked her for a referral.

Speaker 1:

That's incredible, yeah, and it's a great differentiation to make because, yes, here in Australia it is a very different cultural situation than it is in America. So for a lot of Americans and Canadians and from all over the world that are listening, these are just more strategies. Like you had mentioned in the workshops that you do, you might have 20, 30, 40, 50 different referral strategies. So, you know, using bits and pieces from all kinds of different scenarios is probably what's going to end up working the best. As we know as chiropractors, it's the same thing. Right, there's 50 different techniques and most of us have, you know, bits and pieces of many, many different techniques. That then you know, you call it the scott vatcher technique or the craig foot technique. It's this mishmash of things. So it's about figuring out what's going to work best for you and you know, you boil it down and you do these one day immersive workshops for chiropractors and other APRA sort of practitioners.

Speaker 2:

We've had physios, cas, support staff. It's definitely more of a team day about what every person can do in the referral process, because there's a whole process that we lead people through.

Speaker 1:

And that's a really good point to make is when you get your staff involved, it could probably double, triple, quadruple the amount of referrals that you end up getting, I would assume.

Speaker 2:

Yes, absolutely. Anyone who brings their team to their workshops always is very thankful afterwards, and those who don't bring their teams always say I wish I'd brought the team. So it was like anyway, we can't lead a horse to a water beaker, can't make him drink.

Speaker 1:

Hey, Teamwork makes the dream work right, you got it. You got it Absolutely. So we all tend to think, as healthcare professionals, that you know we talk about it all the time anyway and we say referrals are the best type of clients. Why do you think that is? Or C, that when advertising clients go up, or the amount of clients you get from advertising, the amount of referral clients you get is in direct negative proportion to that where more advertising, less referrals. So talk about that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, this one can be quite controversial and, as I see in my industry, chiropractors, look, they're advertising more and so much, more than even five years ago, I would say. But because I've worked so much in this space and I've done a lot of research and talked to a lot of authority, people outside of chiropractic, in regard to this authority, people outside of chiropractic, in regard to this, what we notice with word of mouth marketing, which is basically what referrals are, is people going out into the wilderness telling everyone about you that you should go and see that amazing Scott. You know, dr Scott Vatcher, right? So, but what happens is is I'm going to let you know that as advertising goes up, what happens is I'm going to let you know that as advertising goes up, your referrals instantaneously drop away.

Speaker 2:

Okay, and if I'll give you an example of this and it was a guy called George who actually it was a psychologist and he was in New York and he actually came up with the first telephone marketing system, like basically he would do market research by phone, which was quite interesting. So this is back in the seventies and he actually gave a perfect example about this and so I'm going to use you as an example, if that's okay. So if I would ask you, when was the last time you ever recommended someone to go to McDonald's?

Speaker 1:

I'm probably going to say never, never, right? Yes.

Speaker 2:

But I'm going to let you in on a secret. I know obviously you're very health focused and you're thinking well, there's so many other good meals out there. But it's actually not just you being health focused, it's actually because of the abundant amount of advertising that occurs for McDonald's. They have one of the biggest budgets. I think $30 million every year is spent in Australia on McDonald's advertising, right. And so what happens is at the bus stop, you see the McDonald's sign there and it says Hashbrowns, and you go, okay, it just sort of becomes part of the work. Then you hear it on the radio, and then you see it on the TV, and then you see it everywhere else. Okay, and then after a little while you might go to McDonald's, but what they've actually worked out is probably once every between 500 to 800 exposures, you might go to McDonald's in that case. So that's advertising, cool.

Speaker 2:

Now the other thing is is because no one actually referred you to go and check out the latest hash browns at McDonald's. It's never been your experience to be referred there, so therefore you also never refer them to it. How you get there is you see the advertising, that's how it goes. How you get there is you see the advertising. That's how it goes. But if I were then to say to you imagine what would be a great restaurant experience you would have had, could you describe that to me? A great restaurant.

Speaker 2:

Something. You had such an amazing experience, and then you came back from it and you couldn't stop talking about it.

Speaker 1:

I think it's been a while, since I've had one of those, to be honest. But just off the top of my head there is a restaurant not far from where I live. It's directly on the beach. It's a converted old sort of surf club type of thing and they've just done it up beautifully well and the food is incredible and just the ambience of being literally on the beach is isn't was an awesome experience perfect.

Speaker 2:

So would it be fair to say that they probably don't spend about 30 million dollars a year on advertising for that particular restaurant? They might have a sign up, they might have a little bit of social media here and there. Um, there's a. There's a restaurant here in perth that actually doesn't have a website.

Speaker 2:

It only has a phone number and you can't actually get in there unless someone gives you the phone number. Okay, now here's the thing If I come back from work and you and I back from the weekend, I come in you say, how was your weekend, craig? And I say to you oh man, scott, I went to this restaurant. You can't get in there unless someone actually tells you about it and you get the number and we got there and it was amazing. It was just such an amazing experience. What are you going to ask me for? Probably going to ask you for the phone number. For the phone number, right, because that's the experience that I had and I've already pre-framed that that's the only way you can get there. And now you're wanting to look over the fence and have a look in there and see.

Speaker 2:

And so that's the difference with that word of mouth marketing. With word of mouth marketing, you've got to have the message that comes through, but you've also got to have the spark, the need for the person to share that information. There's psychologically many benefits to sharing information, like referring others. You know, you get a dopamine hit, we feel warm and fuzzy. It adds to our social status with our friends if it's a positive referral, like there's just so much to it. But that's really what we're here for is just to sort of help people understand why people refer, how to do it the best and maybe even at times how not to do it, because you can really muck it up too. So it's a bit of a minefield.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, and we're going to dive a bit deeper into it. So I think here's a lot of people's strategy.

Speaker 2:

Oh sorry, Scott, I forgot to say this. Here's a lot of people's strategy oh sorry, Scott, I forgot to say this With referrals. George Silverman actually said that referrals, or word of mouth marketing, is somewhere between two and three thousand times more effective than advertising. Let me just explain that. Remember we said you've had all of these exposures to McDonald's. Okay, If one of your friends, just one of your friends said, hey, you should go and check out this restaurant, are you more likely to go to that restaurant?

Speaker 2:

right, definitely so maybe one in three friend recommendations you will actually take on and do so. Therefore it translates to way more powerful marketing than actually advertising. So I'm sorry I forgot that particular figure. No, that's all right.

Speaker 1:

Earlier and I think it's important because of the. We're so bombarded with advertising that we kind of turn off to it, right, and so advertising people don't trust it anymore because they know people can say whatever they want in an advertisement and a lot of it may not be true, and that's where referrals and also on the side of, like Google reviews and things like that that can be. You know, some of the stats out there are amazing as well. One of them was 84% of people will trust an online review from a stranger just as much as a personal recommendation to a practice or a business.

Speaker 1:

So phenomenal that out there as well. So like looking on the sidebar of that, referrals and reviews kind of work hand in hand and I think for both, which was what that last question I was leading into was. I think most people's strategies when it comes to referrals are I'm going to do a good job and then people are going to refer because I do such a good job with them, Yep, and you're laughing, laughing.

Speaker 2:

If I could, I'd be on the floor holding my sides. Yeah, look, we say this if hope and crossing your fingers is a strategy for you to get referrals, you are missing way, way too many referrals in your practice. We will do. We will ask this question at the start of a day and we'll go okay. Well, think of everything in the last week, the conversations that you had. Um, how many missed opportunities did you have in the last week about acting on a referral? And that could have been.

Speaker 2:

Maybe, uh, someone was asking a question about their mother has been having. Maybe their people have been saying, oh, my mum's had some headaches or things like that, and you just you were running late, you just didn't have a chance to sort of sort of address it and nail it. Or someone you know, um, maybe they've got a bit of a cold and they've said something that said, oh yeah, that'd be right, I catch a cold all the time. And we didn't have an opportunity sort of to teach them about how that actually works and about how our body responds to viruses. We're trying to educate them in some way. We just didn't have time for that, and then so on at the front desk, and so the average person, when they start the day, say, okay, they've probably missed between five and eight referral opportunities through the previous week. Having gone through the day, they usually actually come back and say, as a clinic because it's not just the chiros, it's not the health professionals, it's the front desk people as a clinic, they could miss up to 30 referral opportunities in the past week. That is mind-boggling. Now, do you have to use all of the strategies? Nope, do we use all the strategies? Hell, yes, because that's what I've dedicated my life to for the last 16 years. So the key thing is that is that people should have to get over this crossing the fingers rubbish because you're doing a disservice to yourself and the service that you're providing. Really, that's what this is about.

Speaker 2:

Look, as a chiropractor and obviously, scott, you're a chiropractor as well I say this to every chiropractor I come across do people do better under chiropractic care? And across the board, no matter what the focus, whether it be wellness or pain-based they all say yes, they do. And look, a study done in 2019, I think found that even if chiropractic was just for back pain which it's not, but if you went to a medical doctor with back pain within three years, you'd have some kind of 48% of people would have some kind of medical intervention involving invasive procedure. So it could be an injection, it could be surgery, it could be these sort of things. So it could be an injection, it could be surgery, it could be these sort of things 48% if the MD was the initial person they saw for their back pain. If a person chose to see a chiropractor as their first person, that statistic dropped to just 4%. Of the people that would go to see a chiropractor initially actually never needed any invasive procedure.

Speaker 2:

Okay, so so it is really critical that you know people live a healthy, functional life for as long as they can, and the healthier they are, the less reliance we can we do on crisis care, but it is there, of course, as a backup. So the fact of the matter is we need to actually be in a position where we are super busy as healthcare practitioners in practice and actually helping the people that we care for and their families. That's actually what this is all about.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, those stats are incredible. I did not know that it was that much of a difference. I always knew it would be, but I didn't know those numbers. So, wow, that is pretty incredible. So we need to be busier, and I think we talked a little bit earlier about this idea of mindset and how mindset can be so important in the referral process, and what I mean by mindset is the mindset of the practitioner. So how would you simply answer this simple question is why do people refer?

Speaker 2:

Okay. So there's various aspects of this on various different levels, but I'm going to give you a few of the key points. Okay, various different levels, but I'm going to give you a few, a few few of the key points. Okay, um, number one people usually refer out of feeling, out of exchange with the person who's caring for them. So let's say, I go to you and I initially go to you with my back pain, um, which is an uncommon and then, as a part of that, now you know I'm getting results and I'm actually finding that I've got more energy, my posture is improving, I'm sleeping better, I've got increased clarity of thought. Man, I am way out of exchange with the fee that I'm paying you for my adjustments. So therefore, I'm more likely going to say I need to get this back into balance. So I need to go and tell everyone about my experience with Dr Scott and how that's gone. That's the first one. How that's gone, that's the first one. So that's pretty common. People sort of understand that one.

Speaker 2:

But then what happens is there's also some social attractiveness to referrals too. So what do I mean by that? Well, you've got a group of friends and we have a group of friends. We lean on them in hard times. We have great times with them in good times, the way we keep bonded together. It's about providing for the group. So if I have a good experience with you and I go, wow, this is a really great experience with Scott, my friends should know about this, so then I will refer my friends and if my friend comes to see you, they have a wonderful experience with you, fingers crossed. And then that friend next time we catch up as a group, not only says, oh my God, craig was right about Scott, he's fantastic. But thank you, craig, for referring me to Scott, he's fantastic. But thank you, craig, for referring me to Scott. Now that's adding to my social status within the group. I'm super, super bonded with those people.

Speaker 2:

Okay, so if I refer people in, they have a good experience, I actually get rewarded from a social status within my peers. However, if I refer and they don't have a good experience, guess what happens? Ouch, it hurts. Actually, it's a downplay. It's a big game. Referrals it's a big game. So referrals I mean we have a dopamine hit when we get a warm and fuzzy feeling when we hear that gratitude thank you for referring me to so-and-so, now I can do this and this and there is a link between the physical changes that the person has whilst that you, you know they may have seen you, scott, to get the adjustments and things. They will forever attach the results of that with me. If I hadn't said that referral initially, then they wouldn't be having these results right here, and that is a very, very powerful and addictive sensation once people start actually realizing it and can do it. So there you go.

Speaker 1:

That's why people refer and so, yeah, creating that exceptional experience is absolutely key, isn't it? Because if they get that dopamine hit and um, we know we want it again and so they're going to refer again and again. Like you said, once somebody starts referring, you know you're doing it right if you get the one and then you get the two and the three and the five and the 10 and the 15.

Speaker 2:

Maybe if I add a little bit to that and give your listeners an actual tip that they can put into their practice right now. Based on this particular thing too Because there was again in influence literature, there was a study done many years ago. If Martin Harvey was here he'd be able to quote the bloody thing, but what it was is that they did this study where they were doing I think it was called the Good Samaritan Study where basically they were, you know, someone would drop their books in the street and these people would sort of help them out and then they would sort of assess assess like almost like very quickly a quiz about how do you feel right now having done that, and people who did good samaritan things, funny enough, actually felt really warm and fuzzy after. You know, I really felt better after helping scott with these books, right. But the interesting thing about this study was it wasn't just that particular relationship. They also questioned people who observed the Good Samaritan Act, and the people who observed the Good Samaritan Act nothing to do with it actually felt warm and fuzzy when they just observed the act.

Speaker 2:

Okay, so here's what we do with acting on referrals Chiropractors, physios, any other practitioners never act on a referral within your own adjusting room or your treatment room. Always, always, do it at the front desk, surrounded by lots of people in the waiting area. Okay, so we go out to the front desk, we've got an audience, there's people waiting, and at that point, you know, we will say to say to maybe my front desk team. I'll say um, kath, is it okay if we help betty organize for her mother to get a checkup? She's had X, y and Z. Is that okay if we do that? And then Kath, of course well, she's never said no to me. In that case We'll say absolutely I can help you with that. So there you go, betty, kath will help you out and we'll look forward to seeing what we can do for your mum.

Speaker 2:

Okay, now that sort of super quick conversation at the front desk. People are listening, people are watching, people are now starting to think I wonder what conversation happened in that room and what's really happening with Betty's mum and so on, and what was so special about that that Craig brought them out to the front and got Kath to act on it. Now there's questions. Now, when I'm going through and seeing those people, I'm going to let you know. They often even ask what was going on out there. What's this? Maybe a complementary assessment that you may have suggested? What's that all about? And then we can work from there. So actually, one creates many, but you always have to do it at the front desk, never in the back room. Great idea.

Speaker 1:

And so we've sort of dove deep on one of probably 150 different things.

Speaker 1:

You'll let chiropractors and other health professionals know about in your seminars which, by the way, the link will be in the show notes there if you want to check it out. He goes all over Australia with these seminars. I haven't been to one yet, but I do want to get to one and I know he's been doing it forever and is fantastic at it. So if you're curious of getting more referrals which of course you are, I know you are If you're listening to this you know you want more referrals than get to that seminar. So we've talked a little bit about the mindset of why people refer. What's the opposite of that? Why do people not refer?

Speaker 2:

Like what are some of these stumbling blocks for people.

Speaker 2:

Look, there's a few different parts of that. So one is the actual person and their personality, but then the other one is what the chiropractor or the allied health professional is actually offering as well. So let's talk about the person themselves and then we'll talk about the actual chiropractor point of view. So the person themselves usually a person who is quite an introvert, is a person who will rarely refer others. We in in our workshop we talk about a fast burn and a slow burn. So a slow burn person is a person who's very hesitant to refer others until they've had a complete experience where they are absolutely sure that if they were to refer someone else, they're going to have exactly the same experience. So they'll they'll. They'll not refer initially, they probably won't even refer after three to six months, okay, and they'll be asking lots of little questions along the way, and then they'll get to the point where they'll go okay, now I feel this is safe enough to actually refer someone who I love no one love and so their concern is really that downside, what happens if I refer someone and they have a crappy experience? Okay, so they're very, very protective about the bonds with their friends and family. So that's really one of the main reasons. So if we can address those, then that's obviously ideal. Now, at the same time, there can be things the opposite end, things like as simple as okay, what are you offering as a chiropractor for people to come in if they're referred? Are you doing an adjustment on those people? Are you not doing an adjustment on those people? And if the expectations are met, when a person comes in, they're going to be happy. If they are not met, they are going to be unhappy and it's going to not work out too well. Case in point let's say you're my chiropractor and I had a great experience with you and I, for various reasons, I got adjusted on my first visit. That may or may not be true and I part of my referral conversation. I'll say to Kath hey, kath, you should go and see Scott because he's going to adjust you on your first visit. Like it's fantastic right now.

Speaker 2:

You go and do an assessment. Kath comes in, you do an assessment of her, but you recognize that maybe there's some other things going on that you need to know. A Fantastic right Now. You go and do an assessment. Kath comes in, you do an assessment of her, but you recognize that maybe there's some other things going on that you need to know a bit more about, and so you recommend not getting adjusted on that first visit until some further testing is done. Kath, because she expected to be adjusted now has not got the experience that she expected, and so can be a little bit pissed off.

Speaker 2:

And then that comes back to me. I could be your world's biggest advocate, but now I'm going to let you know I'm never referring to you ever again, true point, because you've stuffed it up once and now you know I can't, I don't, can't trust I refer next, right? So what we need to be clear about is what is the experience that you can consistently offer for your patients to then recommend other people, okay. So if you never I mean I never adjust on the first visit, just so that you know. But that's actually part of the referral conversation that people have about me, but that's actually part of the referral conversation that people have about me.

Speaker 2:

Go and see Craig. He's really thorough and he's not going to do anything until he understands what's actually going on. That's not. That's not a bad referral reputation to have in health care, right. But you just need to be consistent with those things and look at what am I offering. If, are you offering a free assessment? Okay, if you're going to be consistent with those things and look at what am I offering. Are you offering a free assessment? Okay, if you're going to offer a free assessment, you better be doing that for everyone. Okay, you can't do it for some people and not for others. That's going to come back and bite in the butt. Is it a 50% off? Is it a full fee? I don't know. It's something that you need to work out as a health professional in your own business, but it needs to be consistent. If it's something that's vague, they will never talk about it.

Speaker 1:

And that consistency is key. And I think the way to get consistency is with procedures. You know procedures are the key to success. So how can you I'll make up a word proceduralize the art of asking for referrals?

Speaker 2:

I'm gonna just correct you a little bit.

Speaker 1:

I never asked for referrals uh, yes, yes, we did actually okay yeah, no, no, I'll tell you why.

Speaker 2:

Because I did it once. I actually did it once. You know, I don't know. There was some distraction in my life. Practice was down a bit. Look, I've actually tried the advertising. At some stage we had a group of practices. The younger guys wanted to advertise. I said, oh, shits and giggles, let's just do it. And here here's the thing. We spent $1,500 a month on advertising and exactly what I mentioned before our referrals dropped. They plummeted. The people who came in were not good quality people. So that was my experience and I'm going to let you know coaching chiropractors for 20 years, that's actually everyone's experience, if you really get down to the nitty-gritty. Anyone else who says otherwise is usually in the marketing field. So, so then, um, so, so we never ask for referrals. It's kind of like saying someone saying you can trust me, right, what is? What's the first thing that you have happened?

Speaker 1:

why do you say that yeah, should I not trust you?

Speaker 2:

yeah, if you have to say it, there's something wrong, right, the hairs on the back of your neck will go up. Um, it's like in. You know, if you're adjusting someone, the world's worst thing you can do to say to a patient, just before you're about to adjust just their spine, just relax, right, it's this, you know. Like it does the opposite, okay, um, please never say this. May I be honest with you. To be honest with you again, it tells us. Well, there's times that you're dishonest. That's not cool. You can be frank, may I be frank with you. That's no worries, but never can. To be honest, don't ever say those words. And so, with that, we never ask for referrals. However, we provide through procedures, through setting up the practice, through actual triggers within in your, your room, opportunities to act on referrals. We can have conversations with people. So, case in point, we have these posters. From a chiropractic point of view, they are really nice looking autonomic nervous system posters and spinal nerve posters, and they are literally the only two posters we have in our adjusting areas. Now we use them as conversation starters or triggers, and so I'll walk into the area Nine times out of 10, it's only the two, two posters. What else are they going to be doing? They're going to be looking at the autonomic nervous system poster. Why? Because it's less well known for them. It's like a little bit of a mystery to them.

Speaker 2:

For you and I, scott, having done anatomy, that's as old news right, um, uh. But for these guys it's kind of often this is crazy. I didn't realize the spine. There was connection to all these different parts outside of back pain, neck pain and headaches. So I'll walk in. This is part of the chiropractors procedure.

Speaker 2:

If I see you as my patient looking at a poster, I'll literally say what do you see there, scott? And then you'll actually just see something on there and you'll say, oh, I didn't know that the L5 vertebrae or the nerves that come out there actually go into things like the bowel. I didn't realize there was a connection there, and so you're choosing this conversation. I'm just going to go with it. So then the next thing I'll say is what makes you say that? Okay, and by saying that, I give you the microphone and then you tell me a conversation about your, your cousin wilma, um uh, who's had some uh issues with the bowel and she's had exploratory stuff and blah, blah, blah, colonoscopies, the whole lot and she's really struggling, um.

Speaker 2:

And then you'll typically say do you think, um, wilma should like, do you think that this would help Wilma with her bowel issue? And I'll say, look, if you're asking me if there's research that shows that chiropractic actually helps improve bowel function, I'm going to let you know. I'm not really aware of that. Are you asking me that? I've seen people before that have done actually better with their bowel function, making sure their spinal and nerve system's improving. I would say I have seen that in practice.

Speaker 2:

But how about what we do, scott? We adjust, we check you out first and I'll talk a bit about that afterwards, is that okay? And so then I'll get you on the table. I'll adjust you the whole time. I'm actually thinking in my head what is the most important thing that I need to teach you today about bowel function, wilma? And and maybe even doing an offer to do a checkup for her. And I'm adjusting it. I sit you up, I say, um, scott, I've been thinking about wilma. I can't help but think that it would be good to do an assessment to see if we can in fact help. I would love an opportunity to see if we can help Wilma is, is that something you think it should be interested in? And then you go, yeah, that sounds good. Okay, well, how about we come out the front and we'll, we'll give you something to pass on to Wilma to see if we can help. How's that sound?

Speaker 2:

Then we go at the front, we have that same conversation before I say to Kath Kath, is it okay if we do a complimentary assessment for Scott's cousin Wilma, just to see if we can in fact help. Is that okay? And Kath goes, yeah, no worries, I'll help you out with that, scott. And she actually acts on it. She gives you a little special. We call it a free yourself card. It's a very special piece of card, very pretty looking. In fact, if you're there, that's what it actually looks like Free yourself card. And then we've got that on the back, just got information there Says we're going to do an assessment, we're just going to see if we can help. And then, of course, scott, you go and give that to Wilma and have a conversation around it. So that's actually what happens. Everyone in the waiting room, of course, hears it, sees it, goes. What's that card all about?

Speaker 2:

We go in the next room Bloody hell, person's looking at L5. What do you see there? Okay, tell me what makes you say that Another one called Wilma? Okay, and that is literally what happens within the room. I mean, that's just some of the procedures, but we have a procedure at the front where the CA or the front desk staff need to be able to smoothly take control of the scenario without any kind of energy around it, like if a person is having weird energy about it, then that's not going to end well.

Speaker 2:

Okay, case in point if we need to work out the relationship, so I need to and first thing, best, most important thing get the name of the person who's a possible referral, get the relationship as well. So it's wilma and she's your cousin, right, that's super important. As soon as we start naming her, we, we, we, actually, it makes it a real person. Okay, what makes you say, well, my cousin Wilma, okay, tell me a bit more about what's happening with Wilma. And and say Wilma so many times like I can't tell you that enough, right, it's a person. Don't ever say I had because, just leave it at the cousin.

Speaker 2:

Because, down the track, if, if you know we, we haven't seen Wilma come in, it sounds more powerful and say, oh, how's your cousin Wilma going versus how's your cousin going, because that's that could be 20 people, right? So it's just super important to make it a real person. And then once we know the relationship, then that actually procedurally at the front desk changes a few things too. So you don't have control over Wilma's appointment book, right? So there's no way we can say to you here, let's book Wilma in on Monday morning at eight o'clock. We can't do that. But if this was your son, absolutely you've got control. Hey Scott, we've got some time Monday morning at eight o'clock, is that okay? If we check little johnny out to see if we can help, we can set it and then straight away it's into the appointment book.

Speaker 1:

So there's some couple of procedural things that you can do within your business yeah, I'm so glad you went through that because there's a lot of nuances in there, a lot of small things that can make all the difference when it comes to having a referral opportunity be missed.

Speaker 1:

You know that idea of taking them through a process, so like when you first had said we don't ask for referrals, like you know, that's not what it and it got me me. I'm so glad that we were able to have that conversation because now it makes so much more sense to me, because I'm sure some of the listeners as well were like how do you do? That's impossible. How do you get referrals without asking? It's just, that's not a thing, but it's. I mean, eventually I guess there is the ask, right, but it's, it's not like hey, it's, yeah. Who do you know that needs to see us that there's there's a flow and there's a conversation and then there's a personalization and that is, I would think, what a dramatic difference would be in your referrals going from hope for the best to 10 to 20 to 30 referral opportunities per week it's's definitely more contextual, like it's very specific.

Speaker 2:

As you say, it's customized to the person. We're using real people's names, relationships. It's within the context of that scenario. It goes from asking for a referral to actually an offer to just check to see if someone can help. I mean, they, um, so that's, that's pretty much nuances. That's exactly it. There's a lot of nuances to this stuff. But you can, you know, like you can say something and I can give you the words and that's fine.

Speaker 2:

But you know what one of the things we see in with chiropractors particularly and actually physios, uh, who have come to our workshops too is they have a hard time even offering just to do an assessment to see if they can help. Like we actually spend time on the referral mindset of the practitioner. Why? Well, because they think that they're actually promising the world and I think that's that's the big. You know, I think I can make your bowel function improve, scott. I'd love the opportunity. I can do that and that's not a promise I can keep and I don't think anyone can really say that, whereas if we do an offer of you know what, I would actually love an opportunity to check Wilma, just to see if we can help. That's literally that we're not promising the world. We're just going to do an assessment, see what's going on there. It may or may not be appropriate, but you know what the important thing is? She gets an opportunity and an option, and that's a big deal 4%, 48%, as we've said before, kind of a big deal.

Speaker 1:

Huge difference, huge difference. So what do you say? Because there's definitely a lot of practitioners who've gone through this process and have had these referral opportunities and it's gotten to the point where they've been able to make an ask and the person said yes, and that the person believes that you can help them. And the slipping through the cracks, the follow-up. You know what is some old sayings the fortune is in the follow-up. Do you have any comments or thoughts on that?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So one of the biggest bloody problems that occurs is not understanding that if a person has referred once, if they themselves have a really good experience in referring someone whether it be through feedback from the person they're referring or feedback from the chiropractor, the team that is doing the work then they're likely to refer more. It's never usually one person refers just one person. If, if a person refers one, they could refer five. Okay, so one of the things is nurturing and giving positive feedback within reason about the referral. So let's say, for instance, um, uh, you referred in uh, cath, just for keeping the names the same, you're a current patient. You're referred in cath, which is strange because that's my wife um and uh, and, and so so what happens? You actually have an incomplete cycle. You need feedback at some level from me about where kathy's going through in that process. Do I? You know cath's in? We've done assessment. I can't share personal information with you about Kath that breaches the Privacy Act, but I will give you an update about where she is going through in that experience because I can say that, because it's very consistent. So I'll say to you on your next visitott thank you so much for referring kath in instant dopamine. She speaks highly of you. Another second big dopamine hit. She's a lovely person. We, as you know, the one thing we specialize is are they saying nice people. So good call, and really good call, sending her in for what she's got. Like I really, really want to thank you for identifying the need and sending her in Now. Then I'll catch you up. Scott, where are we at with Kath? We've done the assessment. We found a few things. Again, thank you for that. What she's doing is we're getting some further diagnostic tests done. Can't really share much more about it, um, but you know, um, I think we're going through that with her next week. That's literally it. That's it very loose, not detailed, specific, not you know. Oh, yeah, she's had this horrible stuff with her pelvic floor. Like that's not cool. You can't do that. Um, um, no, but but then I'm updating you.

Speaker 2:

And then the funniest thing happens is this You'll leave the office. You're probably going to see Kath at some stage. When you catch up for a drink on Friday, you'll start asking how'd you go with Craig? There'll be a whole conversation at the pub with all the friends around and she's gone. Yeah, I got booked in to see craig on monday.

Speaker 2:

Now this is what happens with you you, having gone through a program of care, start reiterating okay, here's what's going to happen. Craig's going to give you go through your x-rays. He's going to give you a plan of attack. For the love of god, don't stuff around, just do what he says. Just do what he says. Trust the trust process. You'll thank me down the track and that by the time they come in for the report of findings, they're already in because of just that relationship and me nurturing that. And I do that with everyone.

Speaker 2:

So, thanking people, updating them, and then I'm going to let you know if we ever have an Easter, easter raffle or something or some special thing, the number one referrers are always going to get the, the, the prize. Okay, just you know, it's just what happens, right? Oh, look, it's got one. It's got sent 14 people in. You know what? There's actually things we can do in the practice to to. We have competitions and one of the things you can do as a competition is to refer someone in. You actually get tickets, more tickets, if you refer someone in. So technically it sort of happens.

Speaker 1:

But yeah, high, highest referrers usually win stuff yes, you don't do the draw live in front of others.

Speaker 2:

You do it on the video, where oh look, having done this for a long time I've spent a lot of time in the not-for-profit sector I know, uh, you know, for a lotteries, uh, commission, um, big stuff, you need to have every, all the ducks in the row. This is not that this is about real people in in small practices um, or big practices um having relationships.

Speaker 1:

So that's what this is about yeah, and in reality even a big practice is still a small business in the big scheme of things right. So it is all about community, it's all about relationships, it's all about referrals. So, with that said sort of to clue things up, um, to end it off, what would you say as a summary of why should we be focusing on inspiring referrals? We?

Speaker 2:

um, really it comes around the quality of people and relationships, like chiropractic, like with our clients. We always say that the nature of chiropractic is an ongoing relationship over a period of time where we, yes, we do adjustments but we also give health advice. We're there for a shoulder to cry on, at times sometimes a bloody counseling service Hell, I went to a wedding of a patient the other day which was veryoured because there's only 40 people there. So it's a very relationship thing. And so if with that relationships, that's where referrals come in, it's about using those relationships to even strengthen stronger ties and bonds to the patients and the people that we care for and growing our own community authentically and organically.

Speaker 2:

And I think from a from any health practitioner's point of view, people don't usually get into these fields for to make a billion dollars and never see anyone. No, they have. They want a hands-on, they want to feel good about the work and they want to have a good time with really good people, and that's where the power of referrals comes from. You actually attract these people and you become part of their family.

Speaker 2:

I often say to people I feel like you know, I see lots of families, lots of different ages in practice. But I often feel like I'm sort of walking into these people's lounge room to do an adjustment. So it's like a walk into my adjusting room and it's actually their lounge room and they're all there talking about very intimate things. What they're up to for dinner, you know so-and-so is seeing this person and there just happens to be a chiropractic table in front of them and I'm just adjusting the family members as they're going through and they're sharing stuff with me that they won't share. You know, I'm often the first person that they tell that they're pregnant. I've had them tell me they're pregnant before they've even told their partner, which has been very humbling, and this all comes from these referrals and relationships.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I'd agree, I've been to weddings, I've been to funerals. Yeah, that's a big one for me. I see lots of kids and babies and pregnants and lots of times being the first one to know is such an honor, it's such a weird thing. It's like wow, really. Yeah, I think in their head they're probably a little bit like can you still adjust me? Yeah, I really need to know that.

Speaker 2:

And it's like yeah it's perfect. Yeah absolutely.

Speaker 1:

One of the best things you can do during pregnancy is to stay under care.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, truly an honor.

Speaker 1:

You know, thank during pregnancy is to stay under care. Yeah, truly an honor. Thank you so much for being on here. I believe there is so much value that people are going to get from this from any health profession, really any small business from a referral standpoint, because in reality, growing that relationship with our clients, having them know, like and trust us and then putting their money where their mouth is, so to speak, and referring in others, is such a key value to have. And so if you guys liked what we talked about today, then definitely check out in the show notes the link to Craig's seminar series that he does all over Australia for inspiring more referrals in your practice. And you know, as a great sidebar, if you can spend an extra few thousand less on advertising by doing this as well, it's not only going to have you create a dream practice but also save you a whole bunch of money at the same time. So the ticks just keep coming. So again, thank you so much for what you do. It was a great conversation. So much for what you do. It was a great conversation.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for listening to this episode of Questioning Authority. I hope you enjoyed the show. Stay tuned for the next one coming out soon. This episode has been brought to you by the Authority Co, helping service providers increase authority and revenue. Check out theauthoritycocom for more info.